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V8 Chronicles BRAKES at HALLETT TRACK DAY Internet discussion from V8SHO mailing list of the problems
encountered with brakes at the recent Hallett track day at the SHOklahoma convention I wasn't look for it at the Convention, but in this picture, it looks
like the pie tins are still attached behind the rotors. Where can I get front and/or rear brake pad shims? The only place I have seen thus far
is kragen. But they don’t stock the three sizes they show to fit the 96 Taurus: Louie, IMNSHO, pad shims are crap. My car had them from the factory. My brakes squealed like
hell. Ford, the dealer anyway, said "All the brakes do it, it's normal, since they
got rid of the asbestos". Squealing is caused by a vibration between the pad and the
caliper, not the pad and the rotor. Whenever I do a brake job I use Permatex Disc Brake
Quiet or something similar. It comes in an aerosol can and is sprayed on the backing plate
of the pad. It is tacky and sticks the pad to the caliper. First I sprayed the shims with
DBQ and reassembled them. They still squealed. Next I took the shims out, threw them away,
and just sprayed the pads and reassembled them. Problem solved. Buy a can of Disc Brake
Quiet for $5-6 and be done with it. One can will last for many brake jobs. The tube of goo
that comes with some pads is also crap, IMNSHO. Throw it away.
Ford pads come with shims.
Yep, the Permatex stuff works great.
The Motorcraft Value pads are Organic. I have a brand new set sitting in my garage. I ordered them and didn't know they were organic till I got them. Now they are for emergency use only.
Nathan, my brother just changed out my rear brake pads and rotors. We used Raybestos
brand pads from PepBoys. It took him about 1-1/2 hours from start to finish, including
clean up. You must have one of those tools to do the job because you have to compress the
piston and turn it at the same time, and you can only turn it a little each time. That's
the part that's the PITA. Check out the boot to be sure it's not ripped or torn around the
caliper pin. Then check the caliper pin to make sure it moves freely. My boot was ripped,
and water had gotten in it and rusted.
This is absolutely true. You must have the Rear Caliper Piston Adjuster just to make
things a little bit easier to compress the piston back into place. You can use a long-nose
pliers but make sure you have some first aid kit on hand to treat your wounds.
hmmm.. wonder if Midas uses those pads?? My Midas pads SUCK.. fade to nothing as well. Well.. actually it would take 2 stops from 60 or 1 stop from 90. Or.. I could just be in traffic for an hour w/ 15 mph type of shit and they'll fade too!!! O well. I'd be afraid to drive the car hard on a closed circuit course w/ these pads. Ryan S.
the pedal "went to the floor????", I did not think anything except air in lines or boiling fluid or bad m/cyl. would cause that James Jensen
Its the pads they do not modulate very well. I bled the brakes the other day with Valvoline Syntec Dot3/4 fluid.
Did you replace the rotors or have them turned? Though I agree that the Albany pads do suck (I just took them off my car 2 days ago and went to the SHO Shop Carbon Metallics), no pad will stand up to bedding stop right after install and especially if the rotors are glazed. They really should be driven lightly for the first couple of days then bedded.
Something is wrong or your drive like a maniac <g> if you only got 15k to a set
of Ford pads. I get about 40k with them and no fading. Make sure you have the Ford pads
not the Motorcraft.
I found the same with the Albanys. When I bed them a couple of weeks ago, they were weak after the first few stops (and smoked like I couldn't believe). The pedal was soft with the Albanys, even after rebleeding after the bedding process. At Hallett, they were GONE after two sessions (15-16 laps). The outer pass. and inner drivers had nothing left, the others were 25% left. I installed a set of 75% Ford pads, which lasted fine through 2.5 more sessions. The pedal feel is also noticeably firmer, on the track and the street. I'll replace the Albanys under the warranty, and maybe put them in for the winter after racing season, but they are light-duty pads. I tried a magnet, and they are a full organic pad, as far as I can see. I believe I'll go with the Carbotech Fs for Summit Point next year. Ron Porter Lake Orion, MI '99 black 33K
The Valvoline did well at the track, I'm going to stay with it. In fact, a great number of folks I talked to are using it, and there was only one case (that I know of) of boiled fluid at Hallett. This was by someone who was still running old fluid.....I guess he didn't have time to flush the system after working on that hood!!! Ron Porter Lake Orion, MI '99 black 33K Back to the Hallet Racing Track at the Convention. Ron Porter had a new set of Auto
Zone Albany pads on his 99. After the second race they were toast...down to metal. I gave
Mark Hlady a used set of Raybestos PG Plus pads with about 4,000 miles on them. They
lasted him through Hallet but were worn down real bad, causing him to need replacements
for his trip home. Mike Holhut needed new pads and rotors too after Hallet. I'm not sure
what kind of pads he had on his car but the rotors were Bendix and needed changing. Both
Mike and Mark got new pads from Auto Zone for the trip home. Ron got a set from a friend
who had an extra (used) set. Kirk Duchett had Carbothch pads on his car and they held up
good but he boiled his fluid, even turning his white calipers brown. Kirk, Mike, and Mark
all had to flush their brake fluid. Kenny and Glen Murdock both ran in the touring group
and weren't as aggressive with their cars so there brakes held up good. Besides, Glen has
the Cobra brakes on his front and the front 96-99 SHO brakes on the rear so if anyone
wasn't going to have problems, it would be Glen. He will have to tell you how he did it.
All-in-all the Auto Zone Albany pads are ok for everyday driving as long as you don't do
anything aggressive. I will also put the Raybestos PG Plus (ceramic) pads in with the
Albany's. For aggressive driving and braking it seems
I wasn't as aggressive?? I treated my car like I hated her, and spent quite a bit of
time pushing very hard on the brakes. :) Granted, I didn't completely lose my brakes like
Kirk or Shannon, but I need to bleed them quite badly! Had a few scary moments on the way
home...
I think we were plenty aggressive. Some in the touring were doing just that, but I was
running my car for all she was worth, especially after the instructor showed me how to run
the track. ;-) I ran four sessions. The only brake problem I noticed was some shaking in
the front on hard application in the last session. It must have been heat related as it
doesn't do it now. I have no idea what brand pads are on the front. They came with the
calipers. I don't abuse my brakes normally, but I do give them a work out. These pads have
been on the car for 30+K miles and were about half worn before Hallett. I haven't checked
them again. My rear pads are Albany metallic and have about 20K on them. Plenty of pad
left. My brake fluid was 2 weeks old. No problem there. All in all, my brakes did very
well. This is a dumb question, but how do you know whether your brake fluid has boiled or not?
It turns black and your brakes don't work due to air in the system. The fluid we
drained out of the three Gen 3s was as black as Coke. Paul Nimz
Glad to see you all making it back in one piece.
Maybe if you do a lot of track events, but not worth it otherwise. The SS braided lines
appear to be a waste of money for a street machine, even one that sees a lot of track
work.
I never noticed this before, since I tend to not get right out of the car to look at
the brakes when I have been driving aggressively but, last night I was goofing around on a
state highway with a friend of mine in his 328i. After a 110MPH - 0 stop he nearly freaked
when he looked over at my car! My front brakes were smoking, and I got out and looked and
my rotors were BRIGHT orange! You could feel the heat from 5 feet away!! When I say bright
orange I mean, they were red hot and glowing!! I thought the front tires were going to
explode. I got back in and continued driving and they would fade a little but still
stopped okay.
Why would you have to flush your fluid though? I mean.. wasn't the fluid obviously doing its job and putting the pad to the rotor very nicely causing it to overheat? Not sure how the fluid would be involved here? I dunno. Fluid has nothing to do w/ the rotor itself I do know.
Ryan S. It's not a bad idea, in fact I may do it again since I have a quart of Valvoline left. If there was any moisture in the fluid, it would have boiled, so Richard probably should do it just to be safe (if he hasn't had new fluid in six months or more). Ron Porter Lake Orion, MI '99 black 33K
I would do it just to be safe. Dot 3 Fluid has a boiling point of about 350deg F, Dot 4 is 450 deg f and dot 5 is 550 deg f. DO not think you can use dot 5 in anything except a car that calls for it. Dot 4 should not cause any problems in these cars. used it in all my other vehicles wit h no problems. the Last cavalier had 4wheel abs albeit drums on the back and every two years it was flushed. Brake fluid is hydroscopic by nature {absorbs moisture easily} and older brake fluid tends to have a lower boiling point. If you guys were going for bragging rights at the convention then the fluid temp due to the friction would have been high. Anyone with old Dot 3 would have been pushing. If in doubt most reputable brake service places should have a little hand held unit that they can put in the Master cylinder and measure the boiling point for you. Clare Allenby
With all this talk of brakes, I got to thinking that I should flush and fill my brake fluid. I don’t recall seeing detailed instructions on V8SHO.com. Does anyone have a clear step by step set of instructions for doing this? George 96 ES
I use a power bleeder on my compressor, and have doe the "pump the pedal" routine that takes two people, but I found the Gravity Bleed method from an old Porsche list post. I will paste it in below. BTW, I forgot what GBSG means. I have never used this method, but it seems to work fine, and can be done by one person. Ron Porter Lake Orion, MI '99 black 33K
Not sure if it has been posted, the method I use is as follows.
Then you can join the GBSG as a full fledged member....you are then qualified to pass explanatory emails to anyone who's initials have an "A" or a "D" in them and/or who are thick as a post, and get totally anally retentive in many other ways. Your next step in your learning exercises will be to repaint your car to concurs standard in your garage using only a garden hose, bucket and sandpaper. :-) :-) Hope this helps Dennis Kalma '75 911S with Kremer 3.2 Founding Member 990415-1004
I priced rotors and pads on porterfields site and for all four wheels it was $529.00
I'd say a decent price for high performance parts.
I'd say that's very reasonable, Paul. A few weeks ago my dealer made an unauthorized
brake shudder repair in cutting the front rotors on the car & How do you think their pads compare to the Carbotech pads, what about their rotors?
I have no idea of the quality of their products. They come recommended by a Gen 2
person with the '96 brake upgrade. |
